bill clinton did it. we had six of the best years we've had in the last 60. >> it sounds like there's a bit of a yawn, a gap, between what crystal said on sunday and what rich trunka appeared to say or wanted to say yesterday outside of the white house. is it clear to you that labor and the left and moveon are being more rigid than some of the leading conservative thinkers? >> sure. and that's up to the president to manage that. if he gets the increase in rates or something very close to what he's asking for and gets substantial elimination of corporate loopholes and some individuals like romney plan, then we've got to go back to our base and say, yes, we've got to cut entitlements too because it's got to be part of a deal that has spending cuts at a significant level above the 1 trillion we've already done and revenue. look, unless we do 4 trillion to 5 trillion, we're not doing anything in my judgment that's particularly meaningful. >> walk me through the optics of what we'll see today. grover norquist